Brake Madness

SL6hat_SML

Well still no picture on the custom Sunbeam Tiger front suspension. But in chatting with a fellow Tiger racer (well I’m not one yet) he was mentioning his brake set up using 12.19″ Rotors on 15″ wheels and thought, damn I have 11.75″ I should of course upgrade. The one thing I don’t like are the Dynalites on the front side of the car. “The Ripper” has Superlite 6 Piston on the fronts and they work really well. The dynalites have much less pad surface then the Superlite series, so task of fitting them in was also on the books. After all that found even a better caliper that would almost bolt on (Dynapro 6 Piston) but seems it does not fit 1.25″ Rotors. Crap, would have been easy no changes just new larger calipers and pads. Well back to the drawing board. In researching more of the Superlite calipers you can get them in narrow outside body and that helps, also found a kit for a Superformance Cobra with, guess what, Superlite’s and 12.19″ rotors. Seems they run a Mustang II spindle as well, so might get really lucky if it all fits and just use a stock Wilwood bracket! The Superlite calipers will work on 11.75″ rotors as well, but in for a dime in for a dollar as they say (They in this case is the little voice in my head that says get the best brakes possible). Another interesting thing is the Superlite’s have a smaller overall height off the top of the rotor vs. the Dynalites, just at tick, but it will all help. The only area of concern is rim interference on the front face of the caliper to rim. Will just have to see how that goes as the thicker pads move things out a bit.

The Calipers, GT Directional rotors, bracket should be here early Janurary. Brake compounds that were ordered were the nice J Pads, but they may have discontinued that compound, so may have to try another maybe B, C, or H.

What to do with the Dynalite’s? Rear brakes of course. Will have to shim them back for the 9″ Brackets for the 1.25″ rotors, I have but should not be an issue, or I’ll just have to use thinner rotors or make some new brackets…

11 Responses to Brake Madness

  1. Sandy January 10, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    Well UPS Delivered the first part of the package that had the brackets and rotors in the box to the wrong house. Calipers were in a second shipment so they may make it still. Will see how this plays out, about $700 worth of parts missing in action.

  2. Sandy January 11, 2009 at 9:42 pm #

    Well, next day and my neighbor got the box of goodies. He brought them over and I cracked them open. Seems like the bracket fits the Mustang II spindle just fine and the Rotors are a bit heavier then the non-directional style, but I’ll give up a bit of weight for better brakes. Waiting for Calipers now, will see how much monkeying things will need to get the rotor centered in the caliper. Page now up for the Tiger Front Suspension here

    or by this link

    http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/TigerFrontSuspension.html

  3. Sandy January 14, 2009 at 9:51 pm #

    The calipers have shipped from summit, so hopefully either Friday or Monday I will have them in hand. This will be the moment of truth. I hope things align up with just the planned offset differences between the Dynalite vs. Superlite dimensional differences. The thing that may (well I should say will) change things is that in using a different (the Wilwood bracket) I have no baseline where things were. It could be that things will align perfectly with the correct brake hat, and I’m hoping that it is the one that might already be in use. However, in looking at the images in the instructions the hat looks a lot more narrow, which is not good. If that is the case I’ll have to hack the original bracket to support the different pattern. Tick Tock, will have to wait and see…

  4. Sandy January 16, 2009 at 6:59 pm #

    Got the calipers and guess what, they are way off. Didn’t expect them to really fit, but I had high hopes and was a bit disappointed when they didn’t. After measurement it seems the rotor hats that are on the Cobra Package are .93″ and the ones on the suspension are 1.4″ offset. Which calculated about right. Off to summit racing for another order. The hat’s will, no doubt, also not fit my hub or bolt diameter. Just trying to set the expectations low now. What this also means is that the outside of the caliper is moved farther out then expected and I’ll bet that the center pad on the rim is going to have to be thick. Well more to report after the parts come in. The bracketing did work out very nice so I ‘got’ that going for me. I also ordered the 3″ ARP studs to replace the short ones. Will also have to see if they fit the hub… More as it unfolds.

  5. Sandy January 19, 2009 at 1:59 pm #

    Well after revisiting the issues, I decided NOT to get the .93″ offset hats. This would be easy but I think long term would definitely cause a problem since effectively the caliper is now about .5″ farther out from the hat face. So the nice Wilwood brackets are to be ditched. Ordered up some 3/8″ and 1/2″ steel plate and some other material and it looks like the best plan is to just make the F’n brackets from scratch. What a long road of being lazy to get to this point. Oh well, will get to use the plasma cutter and welder which is always fun. By doing it myself I’ll be able to pull the caliper as far back as possible which will help when rims are to be made. CAD work done on a sample bracket, will have to cut one out to see if it is close but the paper part looks ok. The tricky part is getting the caliper as close to the top of the rotor as practical but keep the pads all in the right location (not too high up). Not too hard but some careful work before final drilling of the mounting holes for the caliper. Pictures coming soon for the new bracket. The Mustang II / Pinto bracket does suck in a sense since the way it is held together is a bolt from behind and a bolt inline from the bracket. So the bolts direction are 90 degrees off if you can visualize that. Just take a look at a Pinto/MustangII caliper and you will see. Pain to make, but that is how it is…

  6. Sandy January 22, 2009 at 10:32 am #

    As this is the FLOG the studs, of course didn’t fit. The Knurl Side was too small and they were too loose. I guess the hubs are not standard Mustang II drilled. So the 120 bucks for studs will be sold or returned. The ones that are the right size are about 32 bucks for the set. Nice. And they say no one is spending money…

  7. Sandy January 27, 2009 at 4:00 pm #

    Metal has been delivered from OnLine Metals. I have a one foot section of 1/2″ steel and a 1 foot section of 3/8″ steel. I will be firing up the plasma cutter this weekend and hopefully cut 2 sample brackets. I’m hopeful that my Miller 625 is happy with the 1/2″ material as that will give it a lot of threads for the caliper mounts. I think the 3/8″ would be fine but I’ll start with the 1/2. I can profile it later at my friends machine shop to remove some of the excess material as needed. Will get some pics up on the main site as it goes…

  8. Sandy February 2, 2009 at 4:36 pm #

    Ok, check out the page. Work well underway on the brackets for the Tiger –

    http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/BrakeBracket.html

    Hit the plasma cutter and then the angle grinder for a transition of raw to finished part. Well not really finished, the mounting boss still needs to be installed in the bracket. So still more work to do. I will not mount the calipers until I can verify that rims can be fitted with 12.19″ rotors just in case I have to revert back to the 11.75″ size. I would hate to have to do that work twice as it was a lot of dirty grinding and sanding. See the link above

  9. Sandy February 22, 2009 at 10:06 am #

    Once bracket is getting close. I cut the notch for the upper mounting and drilled the bottom mounting hole for the spindle. Note to self drill more carefully next time…

    Pictures on the site will be up soon.

  10. Sandy March 24, 2009 at 8:38 am #

    Brackets are complete, and they get a FAIL rating. Found several problems that I didn’t catch. One, the part that is drilled and tapped that is bolted to the rotor is not right. The hole was not perpendicular to the face of the metal and when you tighten down the bolt it is not flat. FAIL 1, not sure why I didn’t catch that, but I think that is a major FAIL and gets an appropriate FLOG entry here. The second was the weld for the metal block was very wide and due to how I positioned the caliper bracket to the mounting bracket the weld was about 1/4″ in the way. That is only a partial FAIL as I could clean it up. After all that I just decided to start from scratch and get a new pattern that will work with 11.75 and 12.19 rotors. I have the sample printed on paper and will make a template to trace when doing the plasma cutting. This should make the clean up of the bracket much easier. FAIL Pictures to be posted on the main site soon.

  11. Sandy March 30, 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    Well FAIL #2, actually a sorta’ FAIL…

    In checking the NEW bracket on a mocked up rotor and spindle I decided I would verify it’s fit on the 11.75″ rotors. Looked good, took a break (No pun intended) and decided to start grinding the finish them off. After looking like the need to remove about 1/8″ top and bottom the labor of grinding them clean begins. After a production spell on the angle grinder and a finish on the vertical belt sander I was really happy how they came out. Well day wrapped up with other errands and in passing out I realized I had not changed the rotor back to the 12.19″ version on the mock spindle. So all the extra grinding was to fit the smaller rotor which the project was to stuff the larger one in. I couldn’t be more pissed. The only saving grace was that I know the 11.75″ will fit the 15″ rims. Too bad I have a set of 16″ right now. I guess I will get the plasma cutter, a fresh grinding wheel, a couple of new belts for the sander and make set #3. Set #2 for the 11.75″ rotors are not at all a waste but I would rather have done them as a back up. I still need to do the welding for the top mount point and drill caliper mounting hole for the Superlite’s. So plenty more chance for yet another FLOG entry…

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